Transcript:
Dr. Marwah:

This way we won't have a sequence. I don't think so, because I know what you're heading to. Do you want to start?


Speaker 2:

Do you have good eyesight?


Speaker 3:

Not as good as you. I have [inaudible 00:00:23].


Speaker 2:

Oh, I can't see well.


Speaker 3:

Oh.


Speaker 2:

Can you read [crosstalk 00:00:42]?


Dr. Marwah:

[foreign language 00:00:42].


Speaker 2:

Did you see that?


Dr. Marwah:

And then, see you want to start from my childhood on?


Speaker 2:

Yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

Okay. I have some albums somewhere.


Speaker 2:

I remember seeing them.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. And we can go through that. Then, after I completed India, then we can follow it up into, when I started in India.


Speaker 2:

I think that would be good. It would be also awesome, I like how you're defining it, because you're defining the different chapters of your life. It's interesting, because how we describe it for ourselves says a lot about our own stories.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah.


Speaker 2:

Oh, my God. Those are [inaudible 00:01:31].


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

Those flowers are [inaudible 00:01:34].


Speaker 3:

Oh.


Dr. Marwah:

These?


Speaker 2:

Yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah.


Speaker 2:

So Dr. Marwah, I know you've told me about your father. Tell me about your mother.


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Tell me about your mother.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes.


Speaker 2:

What was her name?


Dr. Marwah:

Her name was W-I-D-Y-A, Widya Wanti. W-A-N-T-I. Her father was also a physician in 1880. Her brothers were all, one was an engineer, two were physicians. One, two, yes, two physicians. One used to work for the railways and one... yeah, six brothers. And one was in the banking, chairman. But this is her family life.


Speaker 2:

How far can you trace your family back?


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

How far back can you trace your family history?


Dr. Marwah:

To some... a little bit back, whatever I know. But she belonged to a good, well-to-do family in those days. Her uncles were big. They were her mother's brothers. Her mother's brothers, one was chief of Indian [inaudible 00:03:07] of India. Very big. But he resigned in '47, before the British leave India. It was the English time.


Speaker 2:

So he got lucky he got out soon enough.


Dr. Marwah:

No. But he was a big man, and the chief of the [inaudible 00:03:23] of India. And he never, see all these biggies had a special title to them, Sardar Bahadur. He was given this Sardar Bahadur title by the English. Like they gave you sir, everything like this. He was one. The second also... she had one, two, three, three were engineers, uncles. One uncle was a principle of a college. And that's it. That's my mother's brothers. All four of them. They belonged to a good, reasonable family, they are eating well.


In the old days, again, if you know India, India you couldn't go to school unless obviously your parents could afford it. And no side job and nothing like that. And no scholarships or nothing. But parents had to afford you to put you to school and to college. And that was important. If your family didn't have money, no way you can go to college, no way.


Speaker 2:

When did public education come to India? Has it come to India?


Dr. Marwah:

No. No. There was a public education. There were schools run by the state, but very few could even afford books or anything else. They couldn't afford it. And if a little fee, the poor people couldn't pay little fee. And many couldn't afford and didn't go to school. That's what, poor people had to make a little living to eat well. But if I tell you, before the Partition of India, a mason salary used to be one rupee a day.


Speaker 2:

People who make bricks? Someone who makes bricks? A mason?


Dr. Marwah:

No. You put the bricks for build the house, build the house, the mason who built the house. One rupee a day. And a worker, labor was one fourth of a rupee, one fourth of a rupee a day. But not eight hours. Morning till night. You could imagine, those people work very hard, the labor made only four annas, one fourth of a rupee. And you could have a servant in those days of four rupees a month. A month. 24 hours a day.


Speaker 2:

What's it like now, because I know people who have servants?


Dr. Marwah:

Now, the same man will be getting maybe, a worker at home, about 2,000, 3,000 rupees a month.


Speaker 2:

So they do have, because I remember when I went to India, I saw a lot of children who were servants, who's parents bring them down.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. You see now, a cook, because in India, a good cook, about 3,000, 4,000 rupees a month even now. The driver you get about 6,000 to 8,000 rupees a month. If you calculate in dollars, it's nothing. 70 rupees to the dollar.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. But it's a lot there.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. It is, but-


Speaker 2:

It's a lot there.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. But the cost of living is so high now, they can't even make both ends meet.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. We had a driver and he didn't even have a car. He drove one of the cars of the family that I stayed at. But he didn't even own his own car.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. No, nobody owns their own car.


Speaker 2:

Yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

No. No. They come by some transport to work for you. No. No. On foot maybe. They don't have a car.


Speaker 2:

Right. You rode a bicycle.


Dr. Marwah:

No driver has a car. Or bicycle.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. I gave him a trophy for being the world's best driver. And he had to take it home on a bicycle.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah, because drivers, the poor people, don't have anything. And they are not working eight hours a day, okay. 24 hours a day. And sure, you might give them one little shack to sleep somewhere, in the house, outside the house. And that's what even now, even they're making more rupees, but I don't think they can live well even now.


Speaker 2:

I saw a lot of child labor.


Dr. Marwah:

Even if you are making 5,000 rupees a month, I don't think they can eat even well, because things are so costly. Even a little thing, a little vegetable, like two tomatoes will cost them maybe five, 10 rupees each tomato, that much. It's very difficult for them.


Speaker 2:

So, back to your mom, back to your mother. What are your favorite memories of her as a child? Do you remember a favorite thing she cooked?


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah, [inaudible 00:08:40]. My mother was very intelligent. In those days they never sent a girl to school, old days. All ladies were not literally educated, but they were very mentally educated by their family. My mother when she got married, she might have done only maybe fifth grade or something, maximum. They never sent a girl to school. They protected them all the time. And once they came in the professional family, the one thing is to run the house completely. How to start doing things. Sure, then you'll have cooking, you'll have some servants to help them out. But they arranged everything, ruled everything in the house.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. They do.


Dr. Marwah:

And get the children to school in the morning. Send the servant to take them out, not that they will take them, no. Old days, even ladies didn't go for shopping. They were protected. And now, lately, they do.


What would you like to drink first?


Ron:

[inaudible 00:10:10].


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 3:

I'm okay.


Speaker 2:

I don't need anything.


Dr. Marwah:

Anything? Maybe some juice or something?


Ron:

Juice.


Speaker 2:

That would be great, thank you.


Ron:

What kind of juice?


Dr. Marwah:

What kind of juice?


Speaker 2:

Something you don't have to make.


Ron:

Coconut.


Speaker 2:

What kind of juice do you-


Ron:

I've got coconut and guava.


Speaker 2:

We'll have coconut water.


Dr. Marwah:

Or you have guava juice or coconut juice?


Speaker 2:

Coconut would be great, thank you.


Ron:

Guava. Coconut.


Dr. Marwah:

Okay.


Speaker 2:

Thank you.


Speaker 3:

The same.


Speaker 2:

Thank you, [Ron 00:10:36].


Ron:

Do you want ice?


Speaker 3:

No, thank you.


Speaker 2:

No thanks.


Dr. Marwah:

My mother basically was a gearing factor to run the house. And she saw the children study on time, sleep on time, get up in the morning and are well dressed. They had to be well dressed to go to school, they're ready, not late. And that was her job.


Speaker 2:

Was she tough?


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Was she tough?


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. She was tough. And she was very particular that you sleep on time, no fooling around. Nothing. That's about it. I grew up in a town where there was no electricity at that time. But our house was little different. We didn't have electricity, and in those days the water only hand pumps, no running water. But my father done differently. We had one servant in the morning, he'll pump the water. And we had big tanks at the top of the... our house was three stories high. And the top down, all the tanks will be filled in the morning so you could take a shower.


Speaker 2:

Oh, that's awesome.


Dr. Marwah:

It was a luxury, basically. Otherwise, winter was a problem because winter is hot water you need. Then you had a bucket of hot water, mix it, then shower and you're ready to take a shower. That's what used to happen. And my mother was a very time oriented lady. It's exact time, children will get up, they'll be fed well. And then they'll be dressed properly, then they go to school. And then they'll come back. Do you know that in our place in those days we had a horse carriage my father owned, and-


Speaker 2:

Ah, thank you.


Speaker 3:

Thank you.


Speaker 2:

Thank you, Ron.


Dr. Marwah:

The driver of the horse carriage would take you to school. He's not going to leave you there, he's not going to leave you till the bell rings.


Speaker 2:

To make sure you didn't skip?


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. The school bells rings at 08:00 and 09:00. Then he leaves. But you can fool him any day. And let's suppose the lunch hour is in two or three hours, he'd bring the lunch and sit down right there and you have in the lap and then leave. You're not allowed, by order from the house-


Speaker 2:

Constant surveillance.


Dr. Marwah:

Once the school is over, in the summer 01:00, winter later, driver will bring you back again to the house. Then you wash up, have your lunch at home. Then they go back in the evening, maybe 04:00 for playing at the field in school, driver will take you again. And he'll sit down right there where you are playing. He's not going to leave. If you are supposed to play for an hour or two hours, he's there.


Speaker 2:

So he did everything.


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

He was your nanny.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes, because you couldn't go around anywhere.


Speaker 2:

Do you remember, was it the same person all the time?


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Was it the same person?


Dr. Marwah:

Same person.


Speaker 2:

What was his name?


Dr. Marwah:

Those people were there for a long time. Long time, all these people.


Speaker 2:

Do you remember the name of the guy who took care of you?


Dr. Marwah:

Well, I'll tell you all the names. Then they... so in the evening [inaudible 00:14:45] we didn't have any electricity. So we'll eat dinner early, not late in the night. Then you wash up, they'll put you up and you go in your room, lights are on. We had bigger lamps, gasoline lamps.


Speaker 2:

Oil.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. And you study there two hours. And then go sleep.


Speaker 2:

What did you do for fun?


Dr. Marwah:

Fun were only, family will take you. They take you to certain place and other things are going on, but you can't alone fool around. No.


Speaker 2:

So, family everywhere?


Dr. Marwah:

They didn't want you to join the wrong company. That was it. But they want their children to get in certain way and so they don't fool around anywhere. You couldn't do that. In our case we couldn't do it.


Speaker 2:

You were the same way with your children.


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

You were the same way with your daughters.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. But, no. I did in the same way to my daughters for different reasons, because different culture here.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. And you were with her all the time.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. And then, in our case, not that [inaudible 00:15:59], vacations come, we'll be taken to hill station somewhere.


Speaker 2:

Oh, hill station, yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

We could afford it. We'd go to hill station, fool around for a week, 10 days, come back. [crosstalk 00:16:09] all the facility is, and that's the question. But then the time to go to school-


Hello. [foreign language 00:16:25].


Speaker 3:

[crosstalk 00:16:26].


Speaker 2:

[crosstalk 00:16:26].


Speaker 3:

Its crazy.


Speaker 2:

I love that one.


Speaker 3:

[crosstalk 00:16:26].


Speaker 2:

Oh, no. All yours.


Dr. Marwah:

[crosstalk 00:16:26].


Okay. Bye-bye.


So our life was very regimental. Then if the parents are in a very good profession, they try to push the children in the same way. Like the science subjects that you start with, not any other, not humanity studies. And then they gear you. Then they try to see that you're going along properly. Then they try to advance you. Finish the school, you go to college. And again, science subjects in the college, then get good marks. They see that you study hard, get good marks, you can enter the school. And school only you could enter if your parent could afford the fees. And then if your parents didn't have money, you couldn't go to school or college or nowhere. Nowhere.


Even poor people who are intelligent, they couldn't do it. No way. They were deprived of completely. There were no scholarships, no loans of any sizable loans, nothing. Now, it's a little bit, slightly different. I don't think it's that much, even now it's the same thing just about.


Speaker 2:

There's also a lot of fraud. A lot of fraud with the universities.


Dr. Marwah:

Now, it's also the same thing, the poor still suffer. They don't go. Very rarely somebody might come up, very rarely something like that. But otherwise, all the rich, all the people who can afford, they send their children to school.


Speaker 2:

I know you played sports, right? When did you start doing sports?


Dr. Marwah:

Doing what?


Speaker 2:

Sports. Basketball.


Dr. Marwah:

Oh, basketball, okay. Basketball was a coming up sport in the late '30s in India. There were hardly any basketball people. I started playing basketball when I was in my ninth grade.


Speaker 3:

Freshman.


Dr. Marwah:

India, the high school in my time, was for 10 years.


Speaker 2:

High school was 10 years?


Dr. Marwah:

10 years.


Speaker 2:

But it started earlier.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. It started five years of age, and you finish in 10 years high school, if you're intelligent. If you're not, it might take you 12 years.


Speaker 2:

Okay.


Dr. Marwah:

Okay. Not that everybody graduates. They give us exam. 50% used to fail at that time, that's why you spend two more years to high school. But if you were okay, you finish in 10 years. Then go to college if your grades are good. And in college if your grades are very good, then in two years, it used to be called Faculty of Science, FSC a degree, you'll get in two years. And you can apply for medical college admission, but your grades are good and you'll get it. Your grades are not good, then you go for two more years with a bachelors. Then you apply, then you get it something. I'd done two years, I had no problem. I just did my FSC, so I finished my high school at 15, college at 17, dental college at 21 and a half.


Speaker 2:

Did you ever get a bad grade?


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Did you ever get a bad grade?


Dr. Marwah:

Bad what?


Speaker 2:

Did you ever fail at class?


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

Did you ever not do well in school? Was there a class or an assignment you didn't do well in?


Dr. Marwah:

Didn't do well?


Speaker 2:

Like art? Was there a subject you didn't like in school?


Dr. Marwah:

No. No. See, school-


Speaker 2:

It just seems like you had a lot of success. And what would happen if you failed an exam? What would happen? Would your parents [crosstalk 00:21:10]?


Dr. Marwah:

My parents would definitely, if that happened-


Speaker 2:

Was it spankings?


Dr. Marwah:

If that happened, then they'd see that they get a special education for you, maybe a special teaching.


Speaker 2:

A tutor.


Dr. Marwah:

And so you do that. That's how it happens. In our case, we're lucky, we did very well. See you are geared, even I suppose you go to school for one semester, you come back home for 10 days. So your parents see what you have done. If you missed something, they'll say, "You better boy, use a little more studies." That's what happened. They geared you on, they kept you on.


Speaker 2:

That seems to be the perfect way to parent.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. The parents worked with you when you're going to college or school. And they saw this probably in high school, you come back at night. My father would finish his patient work at the hospital. Then he will see what we have done. Maybe, let's suppose, you're missing somewhere, he'll guide you, he teach you, because he was [inaudible 00:22:19]. The parents spent 24 hours with you. So you are not, you don't have any chance to fool around anyway.


Speaker 2:

No rebellion possible.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. But then, basketball I started playing, I was in ninth grade. Our school just started. There were hardly any people who knew basketball. And then slowly we did well. When I went to college, I was a good player.


Speaker 2:

Wow. You played basketball in college too.


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).


Speaker 2:

That's a lot to continue with.


Dr. Marwah:

But I did. I did very well in basketball in college and medical college, I did well.


Speaker 2:

Did you ever play here?


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

Did you ever play after you left school?


Dr. Marwah:

No. I did not play basketball after that. I left school, I played tennis.


Speaker 2:

Okay. And where did you play?


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

Where did you play around here? I know you have a court here.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah, no I play tennis here also. I played tennis in India plenty. Because India what happen, let's suppose you become a physician, a dentist, you're working in a hospital, then you have private clubs. There's your officer's clubs, other clubs, you were a member.


Speaker 2:

I went to the officer's club in [inaudible 00:23:33]. It was nice.


Dr. Marwah:

Well, you go in the evening to officer's club, there's a dinner also you can have.


Speaker 2:

The food is so good.


Dr. Marwah:

And then the people can play tennis, or anything else. So that's fine, so we always did.


Speaker 2:

What did you like about basketball?


Dr. Marwah:

It was a new game in India at that time. Somehow, I was in a good team. We did win quite a few matches. And we got colors, like I have one color right there. That I got in my college in '43, 1943.


Speaker 2:

Up there maybe in the [crosstalk 00:24:15].


Dr. Marwah:

We won an award. No, on the right side. Underneath the stairs.


Speaker 2:

Oh yes.


Dr. Marwah:

The bottom one.


Speaker 2:

Yes. That's a basketball one?


Dr. Marwah:

Basketball. That was in 1943, I got in college, this one. Then I got medical college also, university also, but I lost these university and others, because one time we had a fire here and we lost them.


Speaker 2:

With the [inaudible 00:24:41], right?


Dr. Marwah:

But this is the only I have.


Speaker 2:

With the [inaudible 00:24:43] and stuff. We lost a lot at the same time.


I wanted to ask you, what did you like about tennis, because I love playing tennis?


Dr. Marwah:

Oh, tennis because my father was a great tennis player. This I learned, a little bit, while we were in school. But he was a wonderful tennis player, a great tennis player.


Speaker 2:

Did you play with him?


Dr. Marwah:

I played very little, not much. I wasn't a good tennis player at that time. I was young. I only played tennis after really I graduated from dental college.


Speaker 2:

I played tennis with my mother a lot as a young woman.


Dr. Marwah:

But then I learnt, playing a little better, I was pretty good, so we were young.


Speaker 2:

I want to ask you, was there a favorite thing that your mother prepared to eat? When you were in India, what was your favorite thing to eat, your favorite meal, dish?


Dr. Marwah:

In India?


Speaker 2:

Yeah, that your mom prepared.


Dr. Marwah:

Mom what?


Speaker 2:

Was there a favorite recipe or food that your mother made? A lot of people talk about the kind of dishes or meals their mom made.


Dr. Marwah:

Oh, dishes, okay. My mother was a very good cook. You don't have to worry anything she made, it was pretty nice. The taste was good, she was a great cook. Whatever appears on the table, was good.


Speaker 2:

Did you ever get into trouble?


Dr. Marwah:

Not really. Not much. Boys will, I suppose, in school you fight a little bit with other boys, sure you get in trouble. Then they send a report to your father. It was a small place. [inaudible 00:26:20] "You've been naughty," then you get a little spanking somewhere.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. What was the name of the village?


Dr. Marwah:

Kot Kapura, K-O-T-K-A-P-U-R-A.


Speaker 2:

And now that's in Pakistan?


Dr. Marwah:

No. No, on this side. I told you, we are from Pakistan territory. My parents are born both up there, but my grandfather in 1880, he became a physician. He got a job at a Sikh's state, princely state, Faridkot state in India, which is at the border now. It was India that time, where he became a chief of medical services at that state in 1880. Then my father finished in 1914, so he became, got the same job when my grandfather died Same state. This is why we had one house on this side of the border, because the border came in '47, I'm talking of the 1880s. But we had one house on this side. It was in, Faridkot was the name of the state.


Kot Kapura is the town where I grew up, [inaudible 00:27:37] got my parents and grandparents one Faridkot state, this is seven miles from [inaudible 00:27:44], Kot Kapura. Kot Kapura was the business center of the state, it's the grand market of the state. And it's the richest town. What happened was, when my father was chief od medical services of the state, it was run by a prince. The prince, his father, the last prince's father, who my father used to work for died. And this prince was only 10 years old. Then he cannot go on the throne. Then he has to wait eight years till they are put on the same chair. And then for eight years, English council comes in to run the state.


And my father never liked the English. So in 1929 this last prince's father died, and this price was only 10 year old. And if my father stays he has to work under the English ruler. So my father resigned his job. He didn't want to work under the English, because king would not be back on the chair until eight years later, '37, he'll be in chair. But no. He resigned job and we settled seven miles away in Kot Kapura, he started his practice, 1929.


Speaker 2:

What happened after eight years? Did what happen to the [crosstalk 00:29:23]-


Dr. Marwah:

The boy-


Speaker 2:

The English took over?


Dr. Marwah:

That boy became a king. He became a king, he ran the state.


Speaker 2:

I was just worried the English took it over.


Dr. Marwah:

My father didn't want to go back to the job, again. No, because his practice was big.


Speaker 2:

Yes. Of course. I was just wondering what happened to the prince.


Dr. Marwah:

He was the only physician in the town. For years, they had no physician.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. You said that he retired and then opened a clinic.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. People used to come from 50 miles, 80 miles. There were no physicians, so he had no problem.


Speaker 2:

You were following in huge footsteps.


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

You had a lot of great men before you.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. But I was privileged because they had money. I could do it.


Speaker 2:

But you also had a lot of expectations.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes.


Speaker 2:

You were raised with the expectation that you would do just as well.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. But they gave you everything. They gave you a good living, good studies and they push you to the right path, and very regimental. Sleep at this time, get up at this time, do this time. [inaudible 00:30:30] no luxury, there's only one lamp. You follow me?


Speaker 2:

Yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

And for reading, you get a little better light a little bit. But blessed. That's what happened.


Speaker 2:

What was it like? I'm trying to see what you guys did for fun. You went to church. Oh, I wanted to ask you about the ritual connected to-


Dr. Marwah:

No. The fun, we were regimental. We were taken to school every afternoon, playing. But you are playing here, running around with everyone else. This is why driver will sit down there.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. What did you do for fun? You played sports, but did you sing?


Dr. Marwah:

Well played sport, and then there was no time during the day, but weekends the parents took you somewhere to see [inaudible 00:31:27] place and your holidays they took you somewhere, to hill stations for 10 days trip, on this trip you saw something which other people couldn't afford.


Speaker 2:

How did they feel about you coming here?


Dr. Marwah:

No. They didn't like it. My father did not like it, me leaving the country. We had enough to eat, I was well placed, I was a class one officer. [inaudible 00:31:54] of India at the age of 22. And I made good money. I did practice in the evening. And that's settled. But I had one problem. When I worked for the state, our state hospitals are free for the people, poor people, okay. Anybody that come, it's free. The poor come, the rich come. Rich get the treatment in one second. They come in straight. The poor, sit on the outside verandah on the bench. He waits for five hours, six hours. When the rich are done, then they might be taken in.


Speaker 2:

It reminds me of America. We don't [crosstalk 00:32:53].


Dr. Marwah:

And I was tough. I used to work, let's suppose my hospital hours are 07:00 morning to 01:00 in the day, I'll work from 07:00 to 01:00 every second. My patient they're here at 07:00 not 07:05, that kind. Then I will not work for the rich, no preference to rich. I will tell my... the people who you call them the workers who bring the patient in. They'd bring them by number. Anybody who comes. Rich, didn't like me. They hated me. And the poor loved me. They'd never seen a man who just [inaudible 00:33:47]. And this went on. I was placed in one town. Let me tell you, after Partition of India, which took place in August '47. I even had the first job in March of 1948, first job. In the-


Speaker 2:

New India.


Dr. Marwah:

... free India, okay?


Speaker 2:

That must have been so exciting.


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

That must have been so exciting.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. And then, what the government did, because Sikhs were the men who suffered for the Partition, nobody else suffered out of whole of India. They were killed. Most of killing was in Punjab state. To satisfy the Sikhs somewhere, government of India wanted to give them, [inaudible 00:34:43] their own state. What they did was, there were eight Sikh states in Punjab. This is half of Punjab's came in. Faridkot was one of them. Faridkot, Patiala, Nabha, all these states. They made a separate state called PEPSU. Patiala was the biggest state. They called Patiala and East Punjab States Union, called PEPSU state in Punjab state. The headquarters were at Patiala, which was the largest town of the state. So my first job was in that PEPSU state as a dentist. And I was the only dentist for the PEPSU state. There was no one else.


Speaker 2:

Right after a genocide.


Dr. Marwah:

Right after the Partition of India, there were no dentists. India had only one dental college. This was in Lahore. They took only 16 students a year from all of India. 16. And that ran from 1938 to '47. And that professor for English, dean for English, no Indians. And there were no dentists. When the dentists came out, they went to the army for a better salary and became a lieutenant in the army right away. And there were hardly any dentists in the country.


Speaker 2:

You could've been huge there.


Dr. Marwah:

India they didn't have that education for poor people. They couldn't afford a good dentist.


Speaker 2:

But that's everything.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. And then, I was put in this state, at the town Patiala. It was the headquarters of the PEPSU state, it was the capital of PEPSU state. Then I started my work, they never seen one that give preference to the poor. I was the one that said. "No. From then on, everybody comes by turn." I told my employees that if these rich people bother you, tell them, "Sit inside. There's a fan going on. On my chair, sit down." But I'll take them only when their turn comes in two hours, not before. So they could only do, complain against me to the government, that this young boy is no good. But I didn't listen.


Then one time, three, four months pass by, they want to try me out, whether or not. The Chief Secretary of the state is like the Secretary of State here, he called me. He wanted to get his teeth cleaned. Just try me out. He'd never been to a dentist. There are no dentists in the country. He'd never been to a dentist in the whole life. So he says, "Yeah. I'm coming down to get my teeth cleaned." I go, "Sir, I'll take your number out. It will be two hours. You don't have to come. I'll call you five minutes before. You're only five minutes away from my office. I'll call you. You can come down." He didn't listen to me.


Speaker 2:

He just walked-


Dr. Marwah:

He came in five minutes. He didn't come direct to me. He went to my chief of medical services. He's my boss. And they both came down to my office. And the boss tells me, "Clean his teeth." And I go, "No sir. I'll do it only when the time comes, or after 01:00. I close the hospital. I'm your servant. I'll stay for two hours for you. I'll do it for you. But not during the hospital hours. This is meant for the people." They didn't like it. They couldn't do anything to me. They couldn't touch me, because I was too clean.


Speaker 2:

And the only dentist.


Dr. Marwah:

The only thing they could do, was to send me to a very wrong place in the state. They couldn't fire me, under no circumstances. I had a permanent job. They could fire me only if I do wrong things. They went to my Minister of Health and they asked me, [inaudible 00:39:06] let him sign that they transfer me somewhere else. And they had no dentist in the country, none in the whole state. They sent me to one of the headquarters of the state's main towns. The district headquarters you call them, like this state, I suppose California has Los Angeles, that kind of thing.


Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah. I see that.


Dr. Marwah:

There was one town called Narnaul, which was called the forgotten district. It was the district headquarter, but it had no water, no streets, nothing. No water, nothing. But it was the district headquarters. You are in charge of this one section of the state, where they did recommission other people's state. They, let's suppose, Malibu town or somewhere like this. So they gave me transfer orders and three others. My other older colleagues of mine, they say, "Fight with them." "No, no. I don't want to fight. I'll go. I'll show them I can still live." They send me there, gave me big staff, but didn't give me any instruments, no equipment. I cannot work without the equipment and be a dentist and be a physician so that I can write the prescription. I can't do anything.


But I was lucky. With my job with the hospital, I was allowed private practice in the evening. My father bought me an American equipment the day I graduated. They could afford to do that. So I had the equipment with me, for my own practice. I took that equipment with me and rented a home somewhere. There were no official home for me also in that place. I put my equipment there. If I practice in the evening if somebody comes in. But in the hospital, what I'm going to do? Nothing.


Then I thought, but luckily I had one folding military dental chair. I had extra. I took that and put in the hospital. And for, washing the mouth and everything, I put a little bucket with a little hole going in. And I used to take my instruments, my own instruments in the morning and bicycle. There are no cars, nothing in those days in that town. I bicycled and tell my nurses I'm going to sterilize them, and we start work. The only thing I could do, a poor man comes to a dentist in those days, if you have really terrible pain. And that is the end result, end of the story. The only tooth has to come out, normally.


So, I told the people that have come, no I need the anesthesia, other things to run the show. So I sent a telegram. In those days there were no telephones. I sent telegram to my father. I said, "I need money." "You nee money, why? You're a young boy. You have a big salary. You're practicing in the evening." I tell him, "No. I've decided I'm going to spend my salary on the poor." He goes, "Why?" I go, "They didn't send me anything. I'm going to take my salary to New Delhi, which is 80 miles away, buy anesthesia, cotton, gauge, everything for the patients for the month and start work." My father agreed.


My father started sending me money to live, for seven months. It went on for seven months. I put my salary, 100%. I wouldn't keep one rupee out of it. Only poor. I used to have 100 patients a day. People loved me. A man has come, they've never seen one. And it went on for seven months. But in the mean time, the town was rich. There were rich business people there. One rich man came after a month I started work. He said, "Yeah, I have terrible pain. I want to get this work done right now." Most probably he need an extraction, nothing else. I go, "No sir. Patients maybe an hour and a half or two." "I'll die in that time." I'm like, "I'm not going to do it."


My nurses said, "Doctor, he's the richest man in the town." He said, "I'll do anything you want." That man said, "But take my tooth out." Nurse said, "Doctor, he's so rich you can't imagine." And I go, "Okay. Put him in the chair. Ask him again, "You do anything I want?" He Sydney, "Yes." "Okay, put him in chair. I break my promise today." I took his tooth out. It took me five minutes. He said, "What can I do for you?" "Build my tennis court." That town had never seen a tennis court in their whole life. Never. They don't know what tennis is. He built my tennis court, pulling one tooth out. I can never forget that.


Speaker 2:

That's crazy.


Dr. Marwah:

No. It was 1949, early part. And people know all the officers who are in charge of the whole districts headquarters, they used to come to watch tennis. They've never seen one in the town. So seven months passed by. After seven months, the government sent me a equipment. And after two weeks my boss, the Director of Medical Services come down [inaudible 00:45:26] for inspection. Are you doing okay or not? And he came to our hospital. And his work is, he's about 150 miles away from us. So he was staying two days. There were only three people in the whole hospital. One physician, one lay doctor, one me.


The physician was on the salary as my own, class one. Lay doctor was a class two, lower salary. I told the physician, "Listen, I don't like him. He sent me here. You give him one dinner. I give him one dinner next day." And the same 10 or 12 officers of the district come down. They are the only biggies, the judge, and just the [inaudible 00:46:15], sometimes the mayors, Secretary of State and-


Speaker 2:

Tennis court builder.


Dr. Marwah:

They only get together, then they go. And when they came to my house for dinner, they're told by the Director of Medical Services, "You send you to the boondocks of the state. He's doing wonderful. You can't imagine. Can he, with one tooth out, build a tennis court? And people love him." And in the evening I used to practice. I make a little money. Not much. They didn't like it. They went back and told the Chief Secretary, the same I didn't clean his teeth, he was Secretary of State. They couldn't do anything to me, so they transferred me again somewhere else. He sent me a telegram. There were no phone calls in those days. No emails.


So they sent me a telegram, transferred to so and so town, immediately. I'm like, "No. No. Don't fool around with me anymore." So I went to the town, I lectured the town that these people are idiots. How they brought me to this town. Of seven months I gave my life, I gave my heart. They're sending me out. 500 people went by train, 150 miles, to the headquarters of the state. As you know, we have, [inaudible 00:47:50] they told the Minister of Health that, "If you transfer this man, your holding is gone." He was from that district, he wouldn't have dared. They brought my stay orders in one day.


Speaker 2:

That's so beautiful.


Dr. Marwah:

I stayed in that town for one year. They were scared, they won't move me. After one year they transfer me again. They used to give me trouble every six months, because they were mad with me. I wouldn't change. People loved me. The state didn't love me. I am working honestly with the people, give my heart out. And people love me like hell. And I got tired. Then Fulbright scholarship came to offer this country, to India, in dentistry. They were under the Guggenheim Foundation in New York.


And I cannot apply for any scholarship, unless I go through my director, I'm in permanent employ of the government. I had to apply through the government. I didn't care. I applied directly. The main interview came. I didn't tell anybody. I took one week off. And the interview was in Bombay. And I'm 1,200 miles from there. You can go by train in those days only. No planes, nothing. So I took the one week off and went for interview. The interview was for four days. Clinical work, some other work. And I see 40 candidates for one fellowship. And there were no Punjabi, no Sikh like me. They were all Bengalis and [inaudible 00:49:50], and some different states.


And there were six examiners. Five are from other state, some other [inaudible 00:50:02], these others, I didn't know them. But one luckily... because after the Partition of India, Bombay University started dental school in 1946. The one year before. The principle of that college, was a Punjabi Dr. [inaudible 00:50:19]. He knew me. I told him that actually if my aggregate comes higher, don't let these idiots pull my leg. He said, "Don't worry. I'll watch very closely." I'm the only different looking, nobody else. In four days I won the fellowship, out of 40 people.


I went back home to my director. I go, "Sir, I want leave for one year." He goes, "Why?" "No sir. I'm going to States." "And how?" I said, "I won a fellowship." "And how could you apply?" I said, "On my own." "Then I'll see you don't go." And I go, "Sir, you give me leave or not, I give you two months. Here's your charge for me, whatever I'm working, where I'm working." "I'm not going to charge from you. He said, "I'll see you don't go." "then you try. They cannot stop me. I'll leave this job. You won't have to." Unluckily, the passport was also, given the same state you apply for passport. And who signs the passport? The same Chief Secretary who's teeth I didn't clean. Same man.


Speaker 2:

Oh my God.


Dr. Marwah:

A month pass by. I have two months only to leave. I call his clerk and I go, "Sir, what happened?" "No, the passport's on his table." He said, "I'm not going to sign." [inaudible 00:51:59]. I was placed, at that time, at a place called Nabha. It's 14 miles away from the headquarters. I used to have a small motorcycle in those days, old days.


Speaker 2:

Scooter.


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Scooter?


Dr. Marwah:

No. No. Motorcycle.


Speaker 2:

Motorcycle.


Dr. Marwah:

BSA Motorcycle's small. I took my motorcycle 14 miles, I went to the town, the headquarters. I went to his office. I didn't make an appointment. I opened the door. I went straight in. "Hey sir." "Hi. How did you come?" I go, "Sir. I heard you have my passport. You don't want to sign." [inaudible 00:52:36]. He didn't say one word. Signed the passport, gave it to me.


Speaker 2:

He was scared.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. He remembered.


Speaker 2:

I wonder what you looked like.


Dr. Marwah:

[inaudible 00:52:48]. So I got the passport. I had one more month to go. I went back to my director again. I said, "I have one month." "No, I'm not taking charge from you. And I'll see you don't go." And I go, "Sir, you can't stop me. I'm telling you right now. Whatever you do, you can't stop me."


Speaker 2:

That is crazy.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah, because at that time my hands were also big, I got married to another family. They're biggies. They're big in the town, in the state.


Speaker 2:

Kuljit's family.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. My wife's family. Very big. Then, the month passed by. He didn't take charge from me. In the hospital, several surgeons in India they had heard of that hospital. And we all doctors work. And he directs. He's the director of the hospital, that's the point. So I asked to see the surgeon, "Well, take charge for me. I'm leaving." And I see the original letter they sent me. Don't take charge from him. Okay, no problem. I closed up my section of the hospital. I went 14 miles away, took the case, put it on the director's table. And I go, "Sir, good bye. I'm leaving tomorrow." "I can stop you." I go, "Sir, you can't touch me. You can't stop me." I told him I'm going by train. It took a day and a half to go to Bombay. I'm going by ship from there. I reached New York. After I reach New York, they sent me a letter, "Your leave is sanctioned. We will give you half salary, you come back." No. No. It's too late. That's how I came.


Speaker 2:

The bullies never win.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. That's how I came to this country. It was very difficult.


Speaker 2:

Wow.


Dr. Marwah:

It's not... I was tired of this nonsense, I've been working very hard. And I gave my heart out basically. I didn't care about money. I was comfortable. I had money. I grew up well. And when they gave me a trouble like this, I said no. And hospital, I wanted to work only for the poor, because poor never got treatment otherwise. And they only can tell you, "God bless you," nothing else. They can't tell you anything else. And the whole town knew this boy is tough, but he's a good worker. He doesn't take off. He spends all the time that he's supposed to spend in the hospital on the patients. And does great work.


But the administration didn't like me, only because I am not working for the rich. The rich, I work for them. But then [inaudible 00:55:45], "Sir, you tell me. Stay two hours after the hospital hours. I'll stay. I'll work for your friends free. But not during the hospital hours. I'll never do it. That is my calling. If the rich people come, they want the chief of services, I'll do it for them I don't care. [crosstalk 00:56:04]."


Speaker 2:

They were just trying to break you.


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

They were trying to break you.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. But this is, see in India the only thing is the poor do not get the treatment at all.


Speaker 2:

And they didn't even care about the poor. It was an ego thing.


Dr. Marwah:

And the rich get all the benefit that's supposed to come... the rich are not supposed to come to the hospital. But they get free, every rich man. They don't pay one dollar. And that's how this administration works.


Speaker 2:

That is a very painful story.


Dr. Marwah:

This is how basically I came.


Speaker 2:

That's very painful.


Dr. Marwah:

I came alone. I did not bring my wife at that time. And I had the fellowship in New York. After I finish my fellowship, then I had to do my American duty as to practice in the country. In those days there were no foreigners. And no schools had any arrangements to get foreigners for various programs. I thought I'll do my masters. So I came for interview, [inaudible 00:57:15] Illinois in Chicago from New York with a friend of mine, who was here at school, he came a little bit, a few years earlier than me. He's [inaudible 00:57:27]. And he was doing PhD at that time, at the same school. He knew me. I called him. He arranged the interview for me under the same boss. And this fellow finished his PhD and then went to the army in this country. And retired a Chief General of the Dental Corps of the United States, Dr. [inaudible 00:57:52]. Chief of the dental corps of America.


Speaker 2:

And he served in our-


Dr. Marwah:

He died now, about three years ago. He was here in [inaudible 00:58:03] school also three years and loved India. I knew him a little bit. He's the one who arranged the interview for me.


Speaker 2:

Well, he spoke well for you.


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

He stood up for you.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. And then the boss, the advisor and the professor, took me in. "If there's no money, sir I cannot come. No money, I can't do. You have to give me a little money. Give me a little money." He said, "Okay." He gave a small fellowship, so I could live. The fellowship of only $300 a month. But with $300 you could live very well in those days, in 1954.


Speaker 2:

You could even-


Dr. Marwah:

My apartment didn't cost me more than $50.


Speaker 2:

That's when you were in Playboy Club, right?


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

That's when you were in the Playboy Club?


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. Playboy Club you could member $25. $25 to have [inaudible 00:59:01] in Chicago.


Speaker 2:

That's crazy, Dr. Marwah.


Dr. Marwah:

I can be a member of the Playboy Club. $25. And nobody could afford $25 in those days.


Speaker 2:

So that's why you're giving back so much, because they gave to you when you needed it.


Dr. Marwah:

But, you know they gave me, and now... No, they helped me. I worked on. There's no doubt. If they tell me, this particular had to be ready by morning, I'll stay all night and see that this damn thing is ready. My boss could never say, "What happened?" That's it, because I got that done. And it helped me out. And then, I want to, I could teach after I finished the masters, they immediately appointed me an instructor at the university, but I couldn't practice. I could practice internal, in the university itself, but not outside. I couldn't touch a patient outside. I had to have American [DDS 01:00:07].


In those days they had no programs of any type, of foreign students for DDS. There was another friend of mine, [Joe Henry 01:00:16]. Joe Henry used to also do PhD, right I was doing my masters under the same boss as him and I. He finished his PhD and went back to Harvard University and become a professor with a PhD. So I called Joe. I'm like, "Joe. I want to do this. I have no money." He said, "We have no program of DDDS at Harvard." "Why don't you ask your dean?" So he asked the dean, "There is this friend of mine. He want to do DDS." So he agreed. "It's okay. We'll take you in for four semesters. We do the DDS in four semesters. Less than two years. But you have to finish the work of two years, clinical work in four semesters."


And then I said, "No money." He said, "Okay. We do one more deal with you. I will only instruct the masters, then you teach the boys, the same boys in the morning. Afternoon you do the clinical work. You can finish in half semesters, clinical work for the whole semester, we'll give you." So I did. They didn't charge me one dollar. I used to teach these boys in the morning, after I'm through with them, do clinical work. And after four semesters I complete all the work. They didn't charge me one dollar fee. They gave me all the instruments, everything to work.


And then to live I needed a little money. Then my boss had arranged on weekends, Saturday and Sunday I could work at national clinical health, doing some research. And I'd done my thesis on some [inaudible 01:02:16], and he arranged the weekend you work for them for research they're interested in your field, until you save the money. And that weekend, Saturday and Sunday, I didn't go anywhere, I worked for them. And that gave me money to live.


Speaker 2:

Oh my God.


Dr. Marwah:

In summer, I used to come back to [inaudible 01:02:37] and one summer I came, so I got salary again. This is how I finished my DDS in two years, into four semesters. And then I had no problem, and I got a license to practice.


Speaker 2:

It's hard to imagine you without any money.


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

It's hard to imagine you without any money.


Dr. Marwah:

No. But I didn't pay any money.


Speaker 2:

I know, but the idea, because you've always, to me, you're always giving away money. So to me to see this, that you came from-


Dr. Marwah:

I could ask my father, he could afford to send me, but it was tough to send dollars, although in those days, dollar was three rupees to a dollar, in those days. The rupee was very strong. Now it's 70 rupees to a dollar. I could get from home, but I didn't want to get from home, if I could afford from here. And that way, you could live on small money in those days, there were no expenses, a small apartment, you're not going to go too far. Even if want to eat outside, a big Italian sandwich will cost you 35 cents and five cents for a Coke. 40 cents, you're okay. It was affordable.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. And the work here was probably nothing compared to the work in India?


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah.


Speaker 2:

I mean it's probably easy-


Dr. Marwah:

The work in India was less. Here, you have to work very hard.


Speaker 2:

Oh, okay.


Dr. Marwah:

I worked in India differently. No pressure, nothing, on my own. But here, was I worked that these people don't kick me out [inaudible 01:04:34]. I had to prove them that I'm better. I'll finish this work. I know the subject.


Speaker 2:

Was that the first time you had ever left India, was when you came to the US?


Dr. Marwah:

Yes.


Speaker 2:

What was the biggest culture shock?


Dr. Marwah:

It was a different culture shock, like that.


Speaker 2:

The sexuality must've been hard.


Dr. Marwah:

Because I came by ship, there were no planes. It took you one month to come. I went back in '59, I became professor, same by US Public health, by the same boss, my boss got me a fellowship. And again, I went by ship. There were no planes [inaudible 01:05:14]. And coming here definitely was a culture shock, because people didn't know much who we are. I had a small little apartment on the East Side. Even my clinic was on the East Side. And Bellevue Hospital was right next, where I used the work for both places.


Come the morning, the driver will look at me back and forth. The rate was only, by bus, 10 cents. Subway was 10 cents also in those days. You can go anywhere on 10 cents. And they will look at you back and forth, wouldn't give you a smile. It was a little shocking, slightly. But I didn't care. I just thought they are idiots, they don't know much. About three months, four months passed by. I was here. Christmas came. And I did not know who Santa is. I was that ignorant. There are Christians in India, but I never dealt with them basically.


Speaker 2:

Well, Santa Claus is not part of Christian.


Dr. Marwah:

And Santa Claus, I never saw this Santa Claus. And I see going back to my apartment in the evening, Santa is sitting down on the footpath in those days, having fun. I looked a few times, what's going on? And one day, I want to know, what's going on? Because everybody is playing and having fun, they take pictures, and he's just sitting on the chair and having a big beard, artificial beard basically. So I sit next to him. And the people start taking my pictures, because they saw a different looking man. But they must've taken lots of pictures. I just kept on staying right next to him for half an hour, maybe 45 minutes.


Then I understood that this was a fake Santa and this is the custom at Christmas. So children go around. I went back home. And next morning, there's a picture in New York Times called, "Santa has a son." I had a black beard. He had a white beard. That changed the whole complex. Oh my goodness. I'm coming the next morning, same bus, same driver, idiot driver who looked at me back and forth, "Good morning, sir." I wondered what happened.


Speaker 2:

Because you're a celebrity.


Dr. Marwah:

I came back. People used to call me Genie, everybody. Like on the footpaths called, "Genie. Genie," all the time. They say, "Good morning sir." I didn't know what happened. And at the clinic, I didn't know the paper had come. I went to my clinic, all day my colleagues, who were working with me, they said, "What happened? Santa has a son? What happened. Your picture came in the news." [inaudible 01:08:40]. You were there yesterday at the center, and that guy stood right next to him." And that changed the whole life. Oh my goodness. I used to have a 100 invitations a day from people for dinner, lunch. And I's go, "Santa's son is very busy."


Speaker 2:

We have to find that photograph.


Dr. Marwah:

I think I lost in the fire.


Speaker 2:

But I can find it.


Dr. Marwah:

And then this was so funny, then my days was so different. I passed by, "Good morning, sir. Good evening, sir." What happened? What happened?


Speaker 2:

It's crazy. You're a star.


Dr. Marwah:

So this is what happened. And that changed the whole complex, my mental complex all changed. But I didn't have much problem. If I didn't have a fellowship, I had to work as a dishwasher or something else, then I have a problem. I didn't have to do it. Luckily, I was lucky, because a small little money-


Speaker 2:

My dad worked as a bus boy.


Dr. Marwah:

Small little money, to live on my independent, on my own.


Speaker 2:

My dad had-


Dr. Marwah:

And that helped me a lot, otherwise sure, I'll have problems.


Speaker 2:

Just horror stories.


Dr. Marwah:

Because people had seen a man in the turban.


Speaker 2:

You were protected with your fellowship.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. And that's what helped me out. And this is where, luckily, I think maybe I was lucky and no problems.


Speaker 2:

I think that you're also very handsome.


Dr. Marwah:

I was okay.


Speaker 2:

No, really, Dr. Marwah. I think that helped too.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. It helped a little bit.


Speaker 2:

No, for real. I think that you look like a movie star in your old photos.


Dr. Marwah:

In my album, I'll show you pictures.


Speaker 2:

No. You're handsome now.


Dr. Marwah:

The first Christmas we had at the clinic, I worked with them, and we are all, [inaudible 01:10:43] the people from many countries doing fellowship. And we all, they celebrate Christmas. And I changed my dress, I posed myself as a snake dancer, I blew the-


Speaker 2:

I've got to see that.


Dr. Marwah:

I'll show you. It's in my pictures somewhere. And I did that. I used to play with them [inaudible 01:11:09]. And no problem.


Speaker 2:

Yes, because they just thought you were Gandhi.


Dr. Marwah:

Mm-hmm?


Speaker 2:

They probably just had one concept of India.


Dr. Marwah:

Yeah. But I was okay.


Speaker 2:

Plus also you're very educated. You know how to deal with people.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. And if I didn't have this one, I suppose, then I could pass as an American. I am pretty fair colored.


Speaker 2:

Why is your faith so important?


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Why is the turban so important?


Dr. Marwah:

It's very important, because I grew up as a Sikh. My parents were very staunch Sikhs. And I thought this religion showed me how to treat the population at an equal level. And that's what it means.


Speaker 2:

Yes, the tenets of equality are beautiful, especially when I see it modeled between your relationship with your wife. You really treated her as an equal.


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. This is why. You are at an equal level with anybody.


Speaker 2:

That's truly intellectual, though. And very radical for India.


Dr. Marwah:

But don't forget, Sikhs foolishly give a higher stage to a woman. You know that?


Speaker 2:

Foolishly? I think it's a sign of intelligence.


Dr. Marwah:

Because they respected the women, the gurus.


Speaker 2:

Yeah. Oh, yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

This is why the gurus get one step higher. Are you with me?


Speaker 2:

And because they also-


Dr. Marwah:

In [inaudible 01:12:38].


Speaker 2:

... recognized it as a lesson, because we don't treat women well.


Dr. Marwah:

This is right.


Speaker 2:

I love you so much, Dr. Marwah.


Dr. Marwah:

But see, things worked out for me anywhere I did go. I came to this city, I didn't know anybody. There were only maybe 18, 20 Indian people. I was soon going to school. And no Indians. I came as a professor to USC to start with. And USC also at the time I came to take the boards from Chicago. See every [inaudible 01:13:22] you had to pass the boards. In those days there were no foreigners. So one day I came to take the board, they will use [inaudible 01:13:29] taking boards or me. And the four other colleagues of mine, the dentists, were all Jewish. They came with me, we're going to take the boards. The five of us came from Chicago, same school. So we're taking the boards, but I think five day board, they didn't have anything else in clinical. Two days, I think I done very well, in my opinion. Third day, I'm working on a patient, and one examiner comes down and looks at me back and forth, he has my CV. I have two DDSs, I have one masters, at that time I was assistant professor at the university.


Speaker 2:

And a much better university than USC.


Dr. Marwah:

And then I have a few publications. He looks at me and he says, he play funny with me, he says, "Doctor." I say, "Yes, sir?" "Are you really a dentist?" That blew me off. I didn't say a word. But I blew him off inside. And I did not show him at all. And I go, "Sir, you've never seen one like this." "No." And this man is [inaudible 01:14:44], you can't flunk me. Just like this. I was mad like hell. I board in Illinois, I said I practiced there back with it. My other colleague said, "He'll pull your leg." Man, he can't touch me. I'm telling you right now. I've done so well, in my opinion, first two days. He can't touch me. When our results came, they all four failed, I passed. And I went back to Chicago. My dean, dean [inaudible 01:15:14], and [inaudible 01:15:14] said, "What happened?" I go, "Sir, I don't know. Ask them." "You passed and the four... " I go, "No, sir. I don't know what happened."


Speaker 2:

It could've been anti-Semitism at that point.


Dr. Marwah:

This has happened. They came back here. They had offered me a job right away when taking the boards, because one of the professors knew me. [inaudible 01:15:39]. And I was happy. I came back. Here was dean [McNaulty 01:15:52], who was dean at the dental school in USC at that time. He's a Catholic. But I've never seen him. Head of department offered a job. When I did go on first day gave me my department order and said, "This is yours. Good luck" And I said, "Let me see the dean to pay my respects. He must know who am I."


I went to his office. I had department order with me. I talked to me. He was a very, "Oh, doctor. I'm so good. I'm glad you've taken the job." [inaudible 01:16:24]. He pumped me up like hell. He talked for about half an hour. And when I got off from the chair, I was very happy that the man is very nice. He said, "Doctor." I went, "Yes, sir?" "You'll look funny in the clinic with this." Oh, that blew me off like hell. That department order, I tore it in two and on the front table. "No, sir. Thank you very much. I don't need you." What an idiot, doesn't know anybody, you understand.


Ready?


Speaker 5:

Dinner's ready.


Dr. Marwah:

Okay.


Speaker 5:

Hi.


Speaker 2:

Hi [inaudible 01:17:00]. How are you?


Speaker 5:

I'm okay.


Dr. Marwah:

She's going to give you some Indian food.


Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you. Are you going to eat with us?


Dr. Marwah:

Huh?


Speaker 2:

Are you eating with us?


Dr. Marwah:

Yes. Yes.


Speaker 2:

Okay.


Dr. Marwah:

Those two-


Speaker 2:

[crosstalk 01:17:11]?


Dr. Marwah:

[inaudible 01:17:11] eat. But today, they have a fast, but they eat only some potatoes or something.


Speaker 2:

Okay.


Dr. Marwah:

It's okay. And then they will eat [inaudible 01:17:22].


Speaker 2:

Okay.


Dr. Marwah:

And then I did go back. I took my coat off. Head of department was a friend of mine. He knew me, that's why he offered the job. I said, "Good bye." "What happened?" "He insulted me. I'm not staying." He go, "No, you can't go. We need you." He immediately called a faculty meeting. And the dean apologized. He did. Said, "I'm sorry, doctor. I didn't know that, I don't know how it happened." It never happened again. I stayed with them three years. The dean came to the department every morning without fail for three years, "Good morning, Dr. Marwah." "Good morning, sir," I said. I had no problem there.


Speaker 2:

Yeah.


Dr. Marwah:

It worked out for me somehow.


Let's go.


Speaker 3:

[inaudible 01:18:11].


Speaker 2:

Yes. I'll do it. Don't worry. I'll follow you, Dr. Marwah. I'm going to go turn this off. Excuse me.


Dr. Marwah:

So-